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Why did Bill erupt Sunday?

Posted by gimpel on September 26, 2006 - 6:28 AM

Chavez made him do it
Cause, darn it, he walks like John Wayne, too
Plus, he walks like Noam Chomsky, tilting a bit to the left
(not that there’s anything wrong with that)

History made him do it
Cause, well, reality and history don’t mix well for him

Hillary made him do it
Wonder who has that cigar? And where she keeps it?

the little blue dress made him do it
Professional, sexy, but (darn it) not stain resistant, damn Fox network

Art made him do it
Acting, an art, he, a master
Scripted, cued, bully, a bully, he

the conspiracy made him do it
Vast, truth to the right, truth to the left, and he trapped in between

Richard Clarke made him do it
To sell lots of books, like Chavez and Chomsky
(Clarke and Clinton, Chavez and Chomsky… hmmm)

ABC made him do it
And like a jilted lover, he went straight to Fox, where hell hath fury

But it was no accident. It was planned.
It was all about getting Hillary elected.

Submitted by mgroothand on September 26, 2006 - 9:30 AM.

Realizing your acute sense of humor and cynicism, I wonder only about your last paragraph:
"But it was no accident. It was planned.
It was all about getting Hillary elected."
Were you cynical, trying to be funny, or being serious?

You mention Noam Chomsky, possibly the worst America hater in the country, yet he is a professor at MIT where some of the brightest and most fertile minds pay extremely high tuition to listen to him. Ah, but that is for another blog.


Submitted by gimpel on September 26, 2006 - 8:11 PM.

I was being serious.
I think Clinton knew he would be asked about his role in the terror war, and was prepared to erupt in anger.
The reply seems to have been prepared beforehand, with all the references to Clark.
I think he is testing the waters to see if Clark can be Hillary's vp, and is beginning a "get tough" policy on terror.
I thought it was quite shameful.
Dick Morris had a really good column today, refuting EVERYTHING Clinton had to say.

http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Comment/DickMorris/092606.html


Submitted by g_dog_blog on September 26, 2006 - 9:55 PM.

The Dick Clarke is a little over the top. The Clinton's want control again. They like being the ones in charge and being in the limelite.

I think Mr. Clinton was caught off guard and his real personality came out. To say, as some have suggested,that this was somehow scripted is to question Chris Wallace's ethics.

The Democrats are losing grip with the public with lower fuel prices with more on the way and the public waking up to the fact the the Democratic party is selling out America to win the seats back in DC.


Submitted by imdstuf on September 26, 2006 - 10:46 PM.

I do not think it was scripted because he would have addressed it like at a debate, not gotten angry. I think he knows that did not help getting upset. The 9/11 Commission's report does support that he did try though, maybe not as hard as he should have, to go after Osama. He was right that at the time right wingers were saying he was using it as a smoke screen for his personal scandal. I remember because I was one of those thinking he just wanted to avoid scandal at home. I was wrong though. Unlike some on here though, I can use reason and admit my mistakes.


Submitted by gimpel on September 27, 2006 - 6:33 AM.

I think Clinton showed what the Democrat strategy will be for the elections, on into the Presidential election.
Dick Morris, and many others, have already showed that nearly everything Clinton said in that interview was a lie.
I certainly don't think Wallace was in any way in on it, but his reputation as a journalist certainly let Clinton know he would be asked that question. And, if Clinton had calmly given a simple answer, evasive as normal, no one would have seen the interview.
It was the start of an attack on the media.


Submitted by mgroothand on September 27, 2006 - 8:25 AM.

FOX News is a middle-of-the-road and somewhat pro Bush news organization. Clinton's tirade last Sunday will give him, his wife and other Democrats an excuse not to be interviewed by anyone from FOX claiming ambush style interviewing. Bill Clinton was looking for that opening and found it. Yes it was planned,.... by him.


Submitted by mydtwc on September 27, 2006 - 12:35 PM.

Fox News is middle of the road??????? AND SOMEWHAT PRO BUSH????

Fox News is no more than the PROPOGANDA WING of the republican party.

It is awful funny that the 9/11 commission agrees with everything Clinton said and definitely says Condi is lying through her eye teeth.

Below is what Thomas Kean who is a former REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR and appointed by Bush had to say about who was at fault all the way back in 2003.
_________________________________________________________________

For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented, reports CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston.

"This is a very, very important part of history and we've got to tell it right," said Thomas Kean.

"As you read the report, you're going to have a pretty clear idea what wasn't done and what should have been done," he said. "This was not something that had to happen."

Appointed by the Bush administration, Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, is now pointing fingers inside the administration and laying blame.

"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," Kean said.

To find out who failed and why, the commission has navigated a political landmine, threatening a subpoena to gain access to the president's top-secret daily briefs. Those documents may shed light on one of the most controversial assertions of the Bush administration – that there was never any thought given to the idea that terrorists might fly an airplane into a building.

"I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile," said national security adviser Condoleeza Rice on May 16, 2002.

"How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility," said Kristen Breitweiser, one of four New Jersey widows who lobbied Congress and the president to appoint the commission.

The widows want to know why various government agencies didn't connect the dots before Sept. 11, such as warnings from FBI offices in Minnesota and Arizona about suspicious student pilots.

"If you were to tell me that two years after the murder of my husband that we wouldn't have one question answered, I wouldn't believe it," Breitweiser said.

Kean admits the commission also has more questions than answers.

Asked whether we should at least know if people sitting in the decision-making spots on that critical day are still in those positions, Kean said, "Yes, the answer is yes. And we will."

Kean promises major revelations in public testimony beginning next month from top officials in the FBI, CIA, Defense Department, National Security Agency and, maybe, President Bush and former President Clinton.


Submitted by mgroothand on September 27, 2006 - 1:21 PM.

As they say, opinions are like backsides, we all have one.
The major TV news organizations, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN plus all the major Newspapers together known as the Mainstream Media are decidedly anti Republican and anti Bush. If there were a somewhat neutral news outlet it would be FOX News. We should also take into account that CBS News' nightly news (the lowest rated of the Big Three) reaches almost four times as many viewers as the #1 news on FOX Cable news, Bill O'Reilly.


Submitted by aaronwalshwalsh74 on October 03, 2006 - 5:58 PM.

I don't know that the media is anti-Bush, it's just that to accurately report what's going on, you have to report that Bush and his people do more wrong than they do right. They may have great intentions (I don't personally think so, but honest people could disagree) but their execution is almost always terrible, and the media has a job to report that to the people.


Submitted by mydtwc on September 27, 2006 - 2:49 PM.

What does this have to do with opinions or CBS or any of the news media for that matter? This was just news reported by CBS on what the chairman of the 9/11 commission that was a former republican governor and had been appointed BY BUSH said on where the responsibility for 9/11 lay.

As far as the news media being biased, you are right and that is just the way they lean by the way. RIGHT!!!

And as far as FOX goes it is no more than the propoganda wing of the republican party. They should be getting paid to be the PR firm for this administration.


Submitted by mgroothand on September 28, 2006 - 8:52 AM.

Through Dan Rather's blather, CBS (emphasis on BS) the former Tiffany network clearly showed its bias in 2004. And, it was not RIGHT!!!


Submitted by mgroothand on September 28, 2006 - 9:41 AM.

Nah, I don't think Rupert Murdoch needs the money. Life in America still is based on choice and many choose the Limbaughs et-al as 1st choice. Al Franken/Air America have failed miserably to capture any attention. George Soros is still licking his wounds, then he can afford it.


Submitted by g_dog_blog on September 27, 2006 - 9:50 PM.

OK mydtwc that is a hefty accusation against FOX. Prove that they are "the propaganda wing of the Republican Party." I will agree that they do lean to the Republican side. They are hardly a propaganda wing for Republicans. With the current media bias an opposing view is necessary to get balance in reporting. People have to invest quite a bit more personal time just to obtain a balanced view.

America would be better served if the news media's stick to reporting the news without bias. Mydtwc, if you cannot admit to there being bias on almost all news media outlets on both the liberal and conservative side, and most of them lean to the liberal side, then you really do not have any business participating on these blogs because that makes you closed minded and biased too.


Submitted by mydtwc on September 28, 2006 - 8:54 AM.

g_dog_blog, not a hefty accusation against Fox at all. An easily substantiated fact.

I want you to stop and think about who owns these media outlets and what their politics are.

Take this paper that you are reading for instance. I think Billy Morris is a pretty good person but I can assure you that he is as REPUBLICAN as they come. You don't have to be a genius to see which way this paper leans.

Look at Clear Channel radio. Lowry Mays that owns Clear Channel is and has been one of Bush's biggest supporters. Clear Channel consist of over 1,200 radio stations. They also own TV stations as well as an outdoor sign company. (Remember the Dixie Chicks being banned on Clear Channel staions?) Which way do you think all of their radio and TV station lean?

Until recently Michael Eisner was the LONGTIME CEO of Disney. Michael is a BIG republican supporter. Oh, and did I mention Disney owns ABC??? Now which way do you think ABC is going to lean?

And the list goes on and on but since I don't have a lot of time to go into it right now, I am going to let you read what somebody else wrote sometime back. Take time to REALLY read it and absorb what he is saying. The people of this country had better wake up before it is too late.
________________________________________________________________

Clearly there exists a media bias. The talk of bias in the media is relentless. Pundits such as Rush, Hannity, Matthews, Alan Keyes..... talk of media bias daily and frequently. There is even a book about media bias by Bernard Goldberg. Naturally he is all over the media outlets making assertions about bias in the media. Whenever media bias is mentioned, the charge is, "the media is liberal and biased as such". While it is true the media displays a substantial bias, it is not liberal. The bias of the media is conservative.

With the constant drum beat of radio show hosts, TV pundits and book salesman insisting there is a big liberal bias, it is quite an irony the exact opposite is true. That the media exhibits and conducts itself consistent with a right wing bias is readily apparent with even a cursory analysis of the facts and behavior shown by the mainstream media.

Gone are the days of the "free standing" mainstream media. CBS, NBC and ABC were stricly networks and competed with each other by providing accurate, thorough coverage of events. Now the media also comprises a variety of cable outlets and ownership is held by a group of large corporations. CBS is owned by Viacom, NBC is owned by General Electric, Disney owns ABC, Newscorp has FOX, MSNBC is parented by Microsoft and GE, CSPAN is held by a consortium of cable companied and CNN is owned by AOL-Time Warner. With corporation ownership, allegiance is no longer to the people. Each of the corporate entities has a big agenda and subsequently a fat stake in politics. GE always wants some new defense contracts, Microsoft wants to operate without anti-trust constraints, AOL-Time Warner wants access to cable lines, etc. They all have some common interests. The corporate media entities want deregulation, seeking to own more media outlets such as newspapers. None want campaign finance reform. The corporate media entities make alot of bucks with the current money based election system. And they all wouldn't mind some largesse from the raid on the treasury. With Bush in office, they get the big corporate tax breaks and Colin Powell's son who is in charge of the FCC to fix the deregulation issues. The corporate media has an agenda. The idea of "informing the body politic" takes a seat way in the back.

The media's agenda gets huge mileage with the Bush administration in office. Election 2000 was an explosion of right wing media bias. The media displayed Gore in the most negative possible light. A Pew Research study found 75% of the coverage of Gore was not about his stand on the issues. It was about allegations over the hollow Buddhist Temple scandal and superflous things such as moving his campaign office. On the other side of the coin, the media portrayed Bush as a "new kind of conservative" who would "restore honor and dignity". The media never bothered to challenge Bush's claims of honor even though he was party to taking private land for the Texas Rangers' stadium, lobbied to pass a 1/2 sales tax to fund the stadium, sold Harken Energy stock as a corporate insider just 2 weeks before a negative report. George Bush lies numerous times on the campaign trail but the media ignored it. The media has a bias and an agenda. Election 2000 showed the bias if the media is strongly conservative.

The right wing media bias has an increasing amount of wind in its sails. The media bias is evident in the smoothing over of humongous scandals and ethical trangressions.

The media line regarding Enron has been, "its a business scandal". In reality, Enron's connection to the Bush administration is a Kilamanjaro sized example of the purchasing of goverment. Not including soft money, Enron has given Bush over $650,000 dollars. In return, Ken Lay got to choose who would be in charge of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commision. Ken Lay wanted Ebert out and Pat Wood in. He got it. Under the governorship of Pete Wilson, Enron played a part is writing the tremendously flawed energy deregulation scheme in CA. Enron was profiting handsomely last summer when prices to the consumer shot up over 300%. Lay sent a memo to the adminstration telling them not to bring price caps. That week the administration anniunced no price caps. Enron also helped to draft national energy policy. Ralph Reed was fixed up with job at Enron in return for his support of the Bush campaign. Enron is a business scandal but it is also a humongous political one. This country needs to address how government power is allocated. The media is more interested in misinforming the people. The right wing media bias is quite clear.

Unocal has desired to run a petroluem conveyance from Uzbekistan to Pakistan. This would require the pipe to cross Afghanistan. Unocal brought Taliban members to Texas a number of times in 1997 and has been negotiating a deal with them since that time. Unocal has also been a big supporter of Bush. John Oneill was the head of counter-terrorism at the FBI. He and several others have said they were investigation Ossama Bin Laden and the Taliban until the Bush administration told them to stop. This has been backed up by Richard Butler, head of UNSCOM. Oneill wrote and published a book about with two French authors. In France it is a best seller. Here it doesn't recieve even scant mention by the mainstream media. If the media had a liberal bias, this book would be translated and passages aired. There would be an investigation. Instead the press ignores it showing their conservative bias.

In August, John Oneill resigned from his post in protest. He became head of security at the World Trade Center. John Oneill died in September as a result of the heinous actions of those who he was trying to investigate. Several of Oneill's associates are talking to Judicial Watch. It could well be that Unocal was present at the Energy Task Force meetings. It is a good bet the conveyance was discussed with Cheney. The link with one of Bush's financial backers, the deal with the Taliban and the halted investigation makes much more sense when contemplating why Dick Cheney is so dead set on hiding information from the people. Of course the media repeats the administration line about "unvarnished information" and leaves unchallenged why Oneill lost his life. Media Bias? Big time.

Without question the media has a horse in the race. Their agenda is far more important to them than is informing the people. Their agenda succeeds further when the Bush administration is viewed postively by the people. Result? Bust on those who threaten the saint hood image with legitimate questions.

On those rare instances when the mainstream media reports on Tom Daschle, the report ignores the substance of the issue and is often suffixed with Daschle's possible future political aspirations. More often than not, the media does take out of context the statements made by Daschle and other democrats. Ossama must be stopped. He is a dangerous ass. Bush told us he'd "smoke him out, get him running and kill him". No doubt doing so is a difficult task which takes time. Daschle said, "we haven't really achieved success until we have stopped Ossama". He is correct as Ossama will be a threat as long as he lives. Instead of considering his statement, the media displayed their conservative bias and insisted Daschle is attacking the president and has future political aspirations. The media should have spent their time considering the statement made instead of twisting it and attacking the messenger. But the media has an agenda and it is a conservative one. To them it matters not if the people are misinformed in the process.

What about this "liberal bias thing"? The pundits and book salesman say it is all around us. What are they talking about?

Katie Couric is liberal. But she runs a morning talk show which focuses on things such as Hollywood stars and cooking. It is not a news show and spends little time on politics and current events. What about Donaldson? Koppel? and the lower totem pole tv personalities? They all know which way the wind blows in their corporate entity. They ignore huge volumes of facts which are not so flattering to Bush and the GOP. Their bosses wouldn't have it any other way and it shows. That leaves Oreilly, Cokie Roberts, George Will, Alan Keyes, Chris Mathews, Rick Sanchez, Larry King, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Mancow Muller, Richard Lowry and all the rest. And they all chatter on and on and stamp their feet about the "liberal media".

Alot of conservatives are perhaps thinking, "so the media is actually right wing, so what". There is a principle that has worked quite well. It is called "checks and balances". When those who control the flow of information seek to marginalize the voice of opposition and those who ask questions of the goverment on behalf of the people, accountability and transparency die quickly. Those in power are able to act in the shadows doing what they will. These are politicians and while you might agree with them at times, there are things they will do contrary to the interests of the nation and you. It is already going on it is just that you don't see it. In the days of the Tass in the Soviet Union and the propaganda directorates in Nazi Germany, controlling public opinion was essential. The right wing media is following in their footsteps. The ultimate fate of those regimes was failure. We as a nation are starting down their same path.


Submitted by weekapaug05 on September 28, 2006 - 2:55 PM.

Nice term paper.


Submitted by FrozenOne on September 30, 2006 - 3:16 PM.

Hi! Mydtwc, remember me? I'm the cartoon character that they froze and thawed out, and you are still that sniffling little whining moron, who is so opinionated that you stink like a skunk. Do your research on your own and you will learn that CNN is 60% owned by none other than the Islamic fundamentalists that you and your Democratic counter parts support. That is why you see all negative and no possitive on our accomplishments in Iraq. Get a life hairball, before you erode away.


Submitted by mydtwc on September 30, 2006 - 5:13 PM.

Yeah I heard that after they thawed you out, they gave you a brain transplant------------ BUT THE BRAIN REJECTED YOU...

FrozenOne YOU MUST start getting your news from somewhere besides Rush Limbaugh.

CNN is owned by the Time Warner Corporation, which isn't 60% owned by muslims you ignoramus.

FrozenOne, I would really like to be able to see things from your point of view but after much thought and consideration on the subject, I realize there is just no way I can get my head that far up my ass.


Submitted by g_dog_blog on September 28, 2006 - 6:49 PM.

Well, the evidence mydtwc chooses is from a nameless person who wrote an article sometime back. Or is someone either their first or last name? Well......, I'm convinced.

How many times has the liberal media been caught fabricating news?

What about the stories that soldiers bring back that shed a different more accurate light than ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN did.

The Dixie Chicks are a group of young liberal Jane Fonda types entertainers whose blather got them in trouble with more than Clear Channel. Hosts of others, liberals and conservatives, boycotted them. They would do better to stick to singing.

Yes there are people like Rush, Hannity, Matthews, Alan Keyes... but the reason they are there is because there is a market for them. Conservatives got tired of hearing liberal slanted news and supported those and others mentioned above.

You're un-authored article wrote, "A Pew Research study found 75% of the coverage of Gore was not about his stand on the issues."

Gore's main thrust to get elected was not to discuss his stand on the issues but to attack President Bush about his. Gore carefully avoided promoting his ideas.

There’s a slant to news all right but the majority is from the liberals. That is why I said all should get back to reporting the news rather than putting their spin on it Democrats and Republicans alike.

I would go into the rest of your reply bit by bit more but (Yawn) I haven't got the time.

Again give documentable evidence.


Submitted by imdstuf on September 29, 2006 - 10:38 AM.

Many soldiers have come back with horror stories about Iraq stating all the bombing we did to get Saddam wiped out their infastructure and now their unemployment is up to 70%. We have sure helped that country out.


Submitted by mgroothand on September 29, 2006 - 10:53 AM.

The primary reason for the high unemployment is that insurgent Iraqis do not want other Iraqis to have jobs. Instead they blow up those that stand in line for jobs with carbombs and IED's. The insurgents have even raped tortured and killed the families of those that want jobs. As an example, look at what happened to family members of the judge currently presiding over the Saddam trial. Those are the real horror stories! These terrorists do not want any form of democracy to succeed.


Submitted by FrozenOne on September 30, 2006 - 3:30 PM.

Imdstuf! What soliders have you talked to lately? That's why they call it war I'm dumb stuf. I suppose it would take a brick to fall on your little melon to realize that the NON Iraq insurgents are causing all the chaos by killing off the Iraq people that want the jobs to help rebuild their country, but I suppose you being the true Dem beleiver that you are would not understand the fundamentals of how the job force works. Here's how it works pea brain: Iraq needs workers to rebuild, Iraq people stand in line to obtain jobs to rebuild. NON Iraq insurgents see Iraq people in line and blow them up with car bombs, jobs don't get filled, Iraq still unbuilt, un-employment still present because NON Iraq insurgents blew up potential employees. GET THE PICTURE NOW? I'm sorry, I should have realized by now that you Dems are not the brightest of our civilization.


Submitted by imdstuf on September 30, 2006 - 6:00 PM.

No, the true reports coming out of Iraq state that we bombed them so hard that we destroyed much of their businesses,roads, etc..aka infacstructure. This took away people's jobs, transportation, etc. As for the raping and killing, yes insurgents do that to innocent Iraqis, but when did the insurgents come in? So have we made it better for the people there?


Submitted by TD on September 28, 2006 - 9:10 PM.

Morris may have refuted what Clinton said, but it was from a man who is just on a rant and not based on fact. Why did Clinton notify Pakistan? so Pakistan would know we were firing the missiles and not India. Could Clinton have replaced people in the CIA and FBI? he could have replaced political appointees but going beneath that level demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of how the civil service system operates. Since Morris knows this, he is just trying to place blame on Clinton when it should reside with the CIA and FBI. Bush has had 6 years to catch or kill Bin Laden and it hasn't happened. In fact, it has been widely (and accrurately) reported that Bush allowed him to escape in the battle of Tora Bora. Bush's leadership borders on incompetence which is demonstrated in his approval or disapproval ratings.


Submitted by imdstuf on September 29, 2006 - 10:53 AM.

Another set of interesting quotes from our great President:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

Notice with midterm elections coming up he is dropping Osama's name alot again even though the CIA closed Alec Station, the special unit which had the specific task of capturing him.

Another good quote: When asked by Wolf Blitzer if Osama Bin Laden was his "top priority, in terms of America's most wanted" criminal, Gonzales replied, "There are a lot of very important people that we want to prosecute."

Ah, politics, gotta love it.


Submitted by mgroothand on September 29, 2006 - 11:18 AM.

It's always a great idea to assail a sitting US president during war. Weaken him on his untimely choice of words and everything will be better. Had John Kerry been the president, all would have turned out just fine by now. No more soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan, let them kill each other off, who cares? Gasoline would be $1.19 a gallon, the economy would be booming, unemployment virtually non-existent, minimum wage at $10/hour, al Qaida wiped out, bin Laden, in a holding cell awaiting trial by a civil court, the US/Mexican border nicely sealed off where even a cucaracha couldn't get through, Iran thoroughly contained and Ahmabinejad has aplogized for his role in the hostage crisis. Former Presidents Carter and Clinton are cheering on the US in foreign countries that used to hate (but now love) America. Kumbaya dear imdstuf.


Submitted by gimpel on September 29, 2006 - 5:56 PM.

and, everybody knows that 17% of all furniture is ruined by condensation.
John Kerry would have passed legislation to end condensation by now.
George Bush could end condensation, if he wasn't paid off by the furniture refinisher lobby and the coaster manufacturers.
Shoot, John Kerry would have ended hail by now.
But everybody knows that Dick Cheney goes hunting with lobbyists from the auto painters association.
And adultery? Gone, if Bush didn't receive gigantic campaign contributions from divorce lawyers.
oh, and one other thing... the spinach cleaners union donated to the Bush campaign last year...


Submitted by gimpel on September 29, 2006 - 6:16 PM.

oh, mgroothand, you forgot to add, that, while the minimum wage would indeed be $10/hour, the maximum wage would also be $10/hr.
Gasoline would be $1.19 a gallon, if you could find any. The only gas you could find on the black market would be $10 a gallon.

But... hmmm... isn't the economy already booming? Isn't unemployment already virtually non-existent?

al Qaida would not be wiped out. Kerry would have used his great powers of diplomacy, and al Qaida would be manning social security call centers in the cool breezes of the mid-east because Kerry would have totally ended global warming... and the world, and all dispositions, would be comfortably temperate. Baby beavers would suckle from foster wolf mothers. The shrew, the salamander, and the skink would enjoy the freedoms of all citizens of America, and would all live to a ripe old age, and be homeless no more. We would all be omnivores, and carnivores would be persuaded to change their very digestive system to accept plants. Kerry would just find a way.


Submitted by mgroothand on September 30, 2006 - 11:11 AM.

You write very well gimpel and your hilarious cynicism is right on! I threw in a few truths i.e. economy and unemployment to bait such as the mydtwc response. It worked, hook, line and sinker.


Submitted by imdstuf on September 30, 2006 - 6:21 PM.

Untimely choice of words? You dare call that simply an untimely choice of words? Are you saying the President did not recognize what he was saying? Maybe if you looked up the history of the Bush family profiting off of war, Bush's ties to the Saudis, Bush's ties to big oil, Cheney's ties to Halliburton, etc you would see that though things would not be perfect with him gone, things might get better. All the reports indicate things are getting worse, except for him and his friends. Period.

"On the eve of the 2004 presidential election, allegations about the
corrupt
relationship between the Bush administration and Halliburton Corp., the
company formerly run by Vice President Richard Cheney, have taken
center
stage once again. Press reports Friday said that the FBI has expanded
an
ongoing investigation into contracts obtained by Halliburton’s
subsidiary,
Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR), in Iraq and Kuwait.
The FBI sought an interview with Bunnatine H. Greenhouse, a senior Army
civil servant who objected to the KBR no-bid contract and complained
that it
represented preferential treatment. The Army gave KBR a secret $7
billion
contract to restore Iraq’s oil fields just before Bush ordered the
invasion
of Iraq in March 2003.
Greenhouse is the chief contracting officer for the Army Corps of
Engineers.
In a letter to acting Army Secretary Les Brownlee on October 21, she
said
that Army officials had not justified the no-bid award by satisfying
procedural requirements such as showing that KBR had “unique
attributes”
that no other contractor could match. She also charged that her
repeated
complaints were ignored, and that the Army allowed KBR officials to sit
in
on Pentagon meetings at which the awarding of contracts was discussed.
The letter charges that “employees of the U.S. government have taken
improper action that favored KBR’s interests,” according to citations
published in the press. Greenhouse said she “experienced repeated
interference with her role” as chief monitor of Corps of Engineers
contracts.
Greenhouse’s lawyer said that his client, who still works at the
Pentagon,
was seeking the protection of whistleblower provisions to block
retaliatory
actions such as demotion or firing. Greenhouse was threatened with
demotion
earlier this month.
Tensions within the Army Corps of Engineers apparently reached the
breaking
point on October 8, when the Corps gave Halliburton a one-year $165
million
extension on a contract to provide food, fuel and other supplies for US
forces stationed in the Balkans. According to an account in the Los
Angeles
Times, which obtained a copy of the contract document, Greenhouse wrote
on
the proposal, “I cannot approve this,” and made other written comments
protesting the award. Greenhouse did not sign the final approval of the
extension, as required. Instead, her assistant, Lt. Col. Norbert Doyle,
signed it.
Greenhouse apparently felt that with so many investigations underway
into
KBR overcharging the US military or engaging in bribery and other
corrupt
practices, the Corps should not simply rubber-stamp an extension of the
KBR
contract in the Balkans, first awarded during the 1999 US assault on
Serbia.
The contract is being expanded to cover the entire continent of Europe,
including newly established US bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary.
The Halliburton subsidiary has been hit with a series of complaints of
overcharging and otherwise mishandling its contracts as the principal
supplier of food, fuel and other materiel to the US invasion and
occupation
force in Iraq. It also faces investigations by the Justice Department
and
the Securities and Exchange Commission over potentially illegal and
corrupt
dealings in Nigeria and Iran.
This is not the first time that top Pentagon officials appointed by
George
W. Bush have overruled career civil service professionals to award
contracts
to Vice President Cheney’s old firm. In the fall of 2002, an Army
lawyer
objected to the initial Iraq-related contract for KBR, $1.9 million to
draw
up a plan for operating the country’s oil infrastructure after a war.
While
tiny in relation to the huge oil field recovery and military supply
contracts doled out later, this award was critical because it gave KBR
an
edge over any potential competitor. The Government Accountability
Office
later determined that the Army lawyer had been right.
Greenhouse herself objected at several points in the subsequent
contracting
process: when KBR placed a bid for the oil-field recovery contract
whose
specifications it had drawn up in the pre-war planning process; when
the
Army Corps of Engineers invited KBR officials to meetings where they
were
discussing the contract awards; and when the Pentagon proposed to make
the
“sole-source” no-bid contract for five years, longer than she believed
necessary. Each time she was overruled.
Last December, after the first press reports about overcharging on KBR
contracts to supply fuel to the military in Iraq, Army Corps
contracting
officer Mary Robertson found two alternative fuel suppliers who would
offer
a better price, but Halliburton refused to buy from them, insisting on
continuing its exclusive relationship with the Kuwaiti-owned Altanmia.
In a
letter to KBR, Robertson protested, “Since the U.S. government is
paying for
these services, I will not succumb to the political pressure from the
[Kuwaiti government] or the U.S. Embassy to go against my integrity and
pay
a higher price for fuel than necessary.”
WSWS : News & Analysis : North America
Expanding Halliburton probe confirms Bush administration is most
corrupt in
US history
By Patrick Martin
30 October 2004
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author
On the eve of the 2004 presidential election, allegations about the
corrupt
relationship between the Bush administration and Halliburton Corp., the
company formerly run by Vice President Richard Cheney, have taken
center
stage once again. Press reports Friday said that the FBI has expanded
an
ongoing investigation into contracts obtained by Halliburton’s
subsidiary,
Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR), in Iraq and Kuwait.
The FBI sought an interview with Bunnatine H. Greenhouse, a senior Army
civil servant who objected to the KBR no-bid contract and complained
that it
represented preferential treatment. The Army gave KBR a secret $7
billion
contract to restore Iraq’s oil fields just before Bush ordered the
invasion
of Iraq in March 2003.
Greenhouse is the chief contracting officer for the Army Corps of
Engineers.
In a letter to acting Army Secretary Les Brownlee on October 21, she
said
that Army officials had not justified the no-bid award by satisfying
procedural requirements such as showing that KBR had “unique
attributes”
that no other contractor could match. She also charged that her
repeated
complaints were ignored, and that the Army allowed KBR officials to sit
in
on Pentagon meetings at which the awarding of contracts was discussed.
The letter charges that “employees of the U.S. government have taken
improper action that favored KBR’s interests,” according to citations
published in the press. Greenhouse said she “experienced repeated
interference with her role” as chief monitor of Corps of Engineers
contracts.
Greenhouse’s lawyer said that his client, who still works at the
Pentagon,
was seeking the protection of whistleblower provisions to block
retaliatory
actions such as demotion or firing. Greenhouse was threatened with
demotion
earlier this month.
Tensions within the Army Corps of Engineers apparently reached the
breaking
point on October 8, when the Corps gave Halliburton a one-year $165
million
extension on a contract to provide food, fuel and other supplies for US
forces stationed in the Balkans. According to an account in the Los
Angeles
Times, which obtained a copy of the contract document, Greenhouse wrote
on
the proposal, “I cannot approve this,” and made other written comments
protesting the award. Greenhouse did not sign the final approval of the
extension, as required. Instead, her assistant, Lt. Col. Norbert Doyle,
signed it.
Greenhouse apparently felt that with so many investigations underway
into
KBR overcharging the US military or engaging in bribery and other
corrupt
practices, the Corps should not simply rubber-stamp an extension of the
KBR
contract in the Balkans, first awarded during the 1999 US assault on
Serbia.
The contract is being expanded to cover the entire continent of Europe,
including newly established US bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary.
The Halliburton subsidiary has been hit with a series of complaints of
overcharging and otherwise mishandling its contracts as the principal
supplier of food, fuel and other materiel to the US invasion and
occupation
force in Iraq. It also faces investigations by the Justice Department
and
the Securities and Exchange Commission over potentially illegal and
corrupt
dealings in Nigeria and Iran.
This is not the first time that top Pentagon officials appointed by
George
W. Bush have overruled career civil service professionals to award
contracts
to Vice President Cheney’s old firm. In the fall of 2002, an Army
lawyer
objected to the initial Iraq-related contract for KBR, $1.9 million to
draw
up a plan for operating the country’s oil infrastructure after a war.
While
tiny in relation to the huge oil field recovery and military supply
contracts doled out later, this award was critical because it gave KBR
an
edge over any potential competitor. The Government Accountability
Office
later determined that the Army lawyer had been right.
Greenhouse herself objected at several points in the subsequent
contracting
process: when KBR placed a bid for the oil-field recovery contract
whose
specifications it had drawn up in the pre-war planning process; when
the
Army Corps of Engineers invited KBR officials to meetings where they
were
discussing the contract awards; and when the Pentagon proposed to make
the
“sole-source” no-bid contract for five years, longer than she believed
necessary. Each time she was overruled.
Last December, after the first press reports about overcharging on KBR
contracts to supply fuel to the military in Iraq, Army Corps
contracting
officer Mary Robertson found two alternative fuel suppliers who would
offer
a better price, but Halliburton refused to buy from them, insisting on
continuing its exclusive relationship with the Kuwaiti-owned Altanmia.
In a
letter to KBR, Robertson protested, “Since the U.S. government is
paying for
these services, I will not succumb to the political pressure from the
[Kuwaiti government] or the U.S. Embassy to go against my integrity and
pay
a higher price for fuel than necessary.”
A pattern of corruption and cover-up
Over the past year, one revelation after another has ensued,
demonstrating
not only that Halliburton/KBR has enjoyed privileged access to Pentagon
contracts, but that the Bush administration has done everything in its
power
to block any review of this corrupt relationship with Cheney’s former
company.
* In December 2003, Pentagon auditors uncovered a overcharge of $61
million
by KBR on a contract to supply fuel for the military in Iraq.
Halliburton
was also suspected of overcharging by $67 million on food for military
mess
halls in Kuwait and Iraq.
* In January 2004, Halliburton repaid $6.3 million in overcharges and
kickbacks for fuel contracts in Kuwait.
* In February 2004, the Pentagon announced that Halliburton would repay
it
for $27 million in KBR overbilling for meals served to troops at five
military bases in Kuwait and Iraq. The meals were never delivered.
* In March 2004, the Pentagon requested the Justice Department join the
probe of overbilling, a strong indication that potential criminal fraud
charges were at issue.
* In June 2004, Time magazine obtained and made public an internal Army
Corps of Engineers e-mail from March 2003, reporting that the initial
contract award to Halliburton had been “coordinated” with the office of
Vice
President Cheney.
* Later in June, press reports confirmed that a Bush political
appointee,
Michael Mobbs, was the Pentagon official who decided to award the
initial
planning job to KBR which facilitated its selection for the subsequent
$7
billion implementation contract.
* In July 2004, a federal grand jury subpoenaed records of
Halliburton’s
subsidiary in the Cayman Islands, as part of an investigation into
illicit
dealings with Iran.
* In August 2004, a Pentagon audit found that $1.8 billion by KBR for
work
in Iraq was inadequately documented and potentially unjustified. The
Pentagon initially said it would withhold 15 percent of scheduled
payments
to KBR pending the result of an investigation—the usual procedure in
such
cases—but reversed the decision two days later.
* In September 2004, a federal judge in Dallas rejected a proposed $6
million settlement of a lawsuit by Halliburton stockholders charging
the
company with accounting fraud, suggesting that the penalty was far too
small.
The month of October has seen one report after another about dubious or
plainly corrupt ties between Halliburton and various federal agencies,
some
of them directly mediated by Vice President Cheney’s staff. These
revelations underscore one reason for the ferocity of the Bush campaign
in
the November 2 election. Should Bush and Cheney fail to retain the
White
House—and thus lose the power to block and suppress the myriad
investigations into corrupt contracting—dozens of individuals, right up
to
the topmost levels of the administration, will face trial, conviction
and
imprisonment.
On October 13, the Los Angeles Times ran a detailed analysis of the
Nigeria
bribery scandal, which could lead to criminal charges against Cheney
from
his tenure as Halliburton CEO from 1995 to 2000. Halliburton became
part of
the four-company consortium building a huge natural gas complex in
Nigeria
when it acquired Dresser Corp. in 1998, merging Dresser’s construction
subsidiary M.W. Kellogg with its own construction arm Brown & Root, to
form
Kellogg Brown & Root.
Kellogg’s boss, Jack Stanley, was a key figure in the alleged scheme to
funnel $180 million in bribes to Nigerian military ruler Sani Abacha,
routed
through a complex series of shell corporations in Gibraltar and
Switzerland,
to gain the lucrative contract, ultimately worth more than $5.2
billion.
Cheney installed Stanley as the head of the merged KBR. US authorities
are
now investigating whether Halliburton violated the Foreign Corrupt
Practices
Act. Cheney would be legally liable if he knew that illegal payments
were
being made in 1998 and 1999, while he was CEO.
On October 14, the Times followed up with a report on apparent Bush
administration favoritism towards Halliburton in the regulatory field,
through a series of actions that boosted a drilling technique known as
hydraulic fracturing, devised by Halliburton, despite environmental
concerns. The technique involves the injection of liquid chemicals,
including gasoline, napalm, crude oil and other toxic substances, into
oil
wells, to force out greater quantities of petroleum than can be
recovered by
ordinary drilling.
The Bush administration has intervened to oppose efforts to regulate
hydraulic fracturing under the Safe Drinking Water Act, authorizing an
EPA
study declaring that the technique poses no threat to drinking water.
At
least one EPA career civil servant has sought whistleblower protection
and
filed a complaint with the agency’s inspector general and Congress over
that
decision. Weston Wilson, an environmental engineer with 30 years
experience,
charged that the finding was not supported by science and that a
current
Halliburton employee sat in on the review panel that approved it.
A lawsuit brought by a group of Alabama residents living near a
Halliburton
well challenged hydraulic fracturing and won a 1997 Appeals Court
decision
ordering the EPA to regulate the practice under the drinking water law.
Action on this decision has been repeatedly stalled, and the issue was
ultimately referred to the Bush administration’s energy task
force—headed by
former Halliburton CEO Cheney. Not surprisingly, the panel sided with
the
energy industry and overruled the EPA. The US Department of Energy
issued a
statement declaring hydraulic fracturing vital to the US economy and
proposing its exemption from regulation. Language to that effect was
inserted in the Bush administration’s energy legislation, which failed
to
pass Congress last year.
The decision of a high-ranking civil servant to publicly challenge the
Halliburton-Cheney connection demonstrates the shattering impact of the
crisis in the US occupation of Iraq on the entire Pentagon apparatus.
Questions have been raised about Halliburton’s sweetheart deals in Iraq
for
nearly two years, both by the media and by congressional Democrats, but
only
sporadically and ineffectively. The investigation has remained bottled
up in
the Pentagon inspector general’s office. Greenhouse’s October 21 letter
has
likewise been referred to this office, headed by Republican lawyer
Joseph
Schmitz.
The chief of staff in Schmitz’s office is L. Jean Lewis, a right-wing
Republican Party loyalist who first came to public notice—and
notoriety—as
an anti-Clinton activist in the Whitewater investigation more than a
decade
ago. Lewis was named to the $118,000-a-year job in 2002, as a reward
for her
role in instigating the charges linking Bill and Hillary Clinton to the
failed Madison Guaranty, an Arkansas S&L she was responsible for
investigating as an employee of the Resolution Trust Corporation.
Lewis filed a criminal referral in September 1992, trying
unsuccessfully to
provoke an RTC and FBI investigation of the Clintons on the eve of the
1992
presidential election. The Little Rock FBI office concluded there was
no
evidence of criminal wrongdoing and said that Lewis’s efforts to
initiate
such a probe were a blatant effort to influence the outcome of the
vote.
More than a year later, Lewis’s charges were taken up again by
congressional
Republicans and became the initial pretext for the series of
investigations
that led to Clinton’s impeachment.
There is a clear and obvious difference in the way that the American
political establishment has handled the Halliburton and Whitewater
affairs.
In the first instance, the Clintons’ loss of money on a small, failed
real
estate venture more than a decade old was leveraged into a massive
scandal
warranting a probe costing $50 million, culminating in impeachment. In
the
second case, a real, ongoing corrupt relationship, involving influence
peddling worth billions of dollars—perhaps the most blatant corruption
in
the long history of political corruption in the United States—has been
largely downplayed. Certainly, there have been no suggestions that
Cheney
warrants impeachment, or that his long-running effort to block
disclosure of
the proceedings of his energy task force constitutes a cover-up."
By Patrick Martin
30 October 2004
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/oct2004/hall-o30.shtml


Submitted by mydtwc on September 30, 2006 - 8:53 PM.

Imdstuf, that is a very good article. There is only one problem. Everybody knows this but yet nobody is doing anything about it.

To say it's criminal that it's happening in the first place is true BUT in my opinion it is even more criminal that nothings being done about it.

And to say this is the most corrupt administration in the history of this country is a gross understatement also.

Yet with all of the proof right there in front of them, you've still got dumb*sses that will take up for everything DUBYA does. It simply amazes me at the stupidity of some people.


Submitted by FrozenOne on October 03, 2006 - 11:53 PM.

Not bad for your first book report imdstuf. I'll give you an "A" for opinion, "B" for research time and an "F" for your wasted effort to acquire solid facts based on your own thinking. It is so easy to quote others opinions. Try thinking for yourself and forming your own opinion.


Submitted by imdstuf on October 04, 2006 - 1:35 PM.

Those were facts, not opinions. Maybe you should give yourself an "F" for reading comprehension.


Submitted by mydtwc on September 29, 2006 - 2:25 PM.

WOW!!!!! I don't have to say anything. mgroothand said it all..

I am just glad that you finally woke up and realized the truth mgroothand. Now get out there and help spread the word.

OH!!! And by the way, I should mention I don't want to see any backsliding out of you............


Submitted by mgroothand on September 30, 2006 - 11:05 AM.

Don't know exactly what you are referring to mydtwc but if it was my last post you need to look up the word cynical.


Submitted by FrozenOne on September 30, 2006 - 3:45 PM.

Mydtwc can't look up the word cynical. First of all you have to know how to spell and second of all you have to know how to read, looking at pictures dosen't count.


Submitted by imdstuf on September 30, 2006 - 6:06 PM.

Ironic that you judge his reading skills FrozenOne. Judge yourself first. You should have put a period after the word "read" as the line "looking at pictures doesn't count" should stand as a separate sentence.


Submitted by FrozenOne on October 04, 2006 - 12:01 AM.

Congratulations I'm dumb stuf, you just passed your first test with flying colors. It is so easy to mess with the minds of simpletons such as yourself and mydtwc. Let it be known that I judge no one.They judge themselves when they fall into simple traps set by the intelligent peoples of this world. Beware what you read, for it does not always appear to be what you are meant to see.


Submitted by imdstuf on October 04, 2006 - 1:36 PM.

Oh mighty genius please tell me how you trapped me. You used poor grammar to trap me? Wow, that is brilliant. What did it lead to? You getting the last laugh because I had to correct your writing? I guess students flunking English get the last laugh on their teachers eh?


Submitted by mydtwc on September 30, 2006 - 5:21 PM.

Are you saying that you were just tricking me the whole time. That is just low. It is crap just like this that make people like me and Bill Clinton erupt.

You just wait till Chris Wallace interviews me. He's gonna get an ear full about this kind of dirty tricks. You must be related to Karl Rove!!!!

Just tricking me the whole time!!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Submitted by mydtwc on September 30, 2006 - 8:40 PM.

mgroothand are you really ignorant enough to believe that took I you seriously????

Are you too ignorant to tell that I was being FACETIOUS???

I know that FrozenOne definitely is that ignorant but I had hoped that you might at least have the IQ of a possum.. And I don't mean George Jones either.

And by the way, I think facetious is the word you were looking for and not cynical.

MAYBE YOU REALLY AREN'T ANY SMARTER THAN FROZENONE!!!!!!!!!! LOL


Submitted by mgroothand on October 01, 2006 - 9:28 AM.

Since English is still a foreign language to me I think I do fairly well. Facetious would have been a better word but it is first cousin to cynical. What's with "took I you seriously"?


Submitted by mydtwc on October 01, 2006 - 9:54 AM.

mgroothand, I guess I haven't been paying attention. I didn't realize english was a second language for you. Not paying attention was the reason for the "took I you seriously" thing also. (I was on the phone)

I have to agree with you 100% that you are doing fairly well if english is your second. In fact, I would have to say alot better than fairly well for a second language. CONGRATS!!!

Now if we can just get you straightened out on your politics. LOL

By the way if the republicans think they had problems with Bob Woodward's book just wait till you hear what is coming from Colin Powell. The republicans sure aren't going to be able to say this is just another left wing nut.


Submitted by mgroothand on October 01, 2006 - 10:41 AM.

As a matter of fact I speak and write four languages, thanks for the congrats. Always spell Republican with a capitol "R", how you spell democrat doesn't matter... I didn't know Colin Powell is coming out with a book. If it is before next month's election and slamming the President, he'll be considered just another Benedict Arnold, an opportunistic profiteer and he needs to be reminded of his roots as the son of Jamaican immigrants that were given a great opportunity to come to this country and make a life.
You see as a naturalized American I believe in supporting a sitting President no matter what party affiliation he may be. An American President has enough enemies abroad. As difficult as it was with Clinton and Carter, I still supported them locally and especially in Europe, where I'm from. I may have criticized their actions on a political level, but the office they held was beyond reproach. Before becoming a citizen I kept my mouth shut, I had no such rights.


Submitted by FrozenOne on September 30, 2006 - 3:50 PM.

Of course you don't have anything to say you never do because your opinionated and besides that you're not very bright. Mgroothand pulled you right in hook line and sinker. WHAT A SUCKER FISH.


Submitted by mydtwc on September 30, 2006 - 5:32 PM.

your opinionated???????? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one though since you did use it correctly later in the same sentence.

Yep yep I really fell for that one FrozenOne, why don't you bend over for this one???????

Oh!!! I bet I know why. I'm not 16 like you and Mark Foley prefer.LOL

GOP and FrozenOne = WEAK ON CRIME-- SOFT ON TERRORISM-- HARD ON LITTLE BOYS............JUST ANOTHER RIGHT WING HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!


Submitted by FrozenOne on October 03, 2006 - 11:20 PM.

Well I can see that you are back to your ol sniffling, whining self mydtwc. What do you Democratic fruit cakes do for a past time, besides try to defame other people. I'll just bet that your daddy would blow his brains out if he knew that you were a result of your mommy messing around with the garbage man. Do you think she will ever tell him? I've often heard it said that siblings being denied the pleasure of breat feeding at birth usually turn out to be queer. You sure talk alot about people being homosexuals. Makes be believe that you were denied the ol breat milk and now you are trying to justify your self by making it sound like the rest of us MEN are there with you in your world of fruit cakes. Oh! by the way, my wife (for your little pea brain that's what we call the women whose plumbing is different from us MEN), says we really enjoy our selves when we go into the closet. She says anybody that likes the Hersey hiway like you do is one sick puppy. Gotta run queer bait, you have a nice night or maybe you should just sit back in the corner and suck your thumb and try to think intelligent like the rest of us. PS Could you smell like you do because your real daddy was the garbage man?


Submitted by mydtwc on October 04, 2006 - 8:13 AM.

I talk alot about queers???? Not unlike Foley, I can see we have another hypocrite on our hands here. In fact you have brought up the homosexual thing 10x more than I have in an attempt to try to put me down when in actuality all you are trying to do is make yourself feel better about your own latent tendencies by telling yourself others are that way too.

If you worry about how I walk or how I talk, I have told you before I'll be more than glad to get together and let you express your opinion in person. Maybe you can show me the right way to walk. LOL


Submitted by FrozenOne on October 04, 2006 - 2:44 PM.

Forgive me mudtwc I keep forgetting that you are some sort of martial arts geek. I wouldn't want to see you spend the rest of your life in jail for hurting a police officer. By the way, how do you know that I don't see you every day when on patrol. Put your mind at ease sweet cheeks I don't think about you queer baits all the time, it's just fun to annoy you because it gets to you. Since you're keeping up with the number of times I referr to your gender little girl, perhahaps I should recommend a good brain surgeon to replace your defected brain with a normal one like the rest of us have. Let me know what you decide. After all you'll make history.


Submitted by mydtwc on September 30, 2006 - 8:43 PM.

FrozenOne, may I direct your dumb*ss to the post immediately preceding yours, you ignoramus you??? LOL


Submitted by FrozenOne on October 03, 2006 - 11:31 PM.

HI queer bait! why should I bend over for you? Are you that hard up that you have to seek real men? what's a matter moron, did all your boyfriends bail out on you or did they find out that your a walking AIDS factory. Your life must really suck with your girly walk and talk. From the way you always talk I'll bet you try to be the bitch every time you meet a new fella. Have a nice night. pansy