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We fight them over there…

Posted by gimpel on August 21, 2006 - 6:16 AM

and we fight them over here.

“… the power to protect must be commensurate with the threatened danger.”

Anna Diggs Taylor, a Jimmy Carter appointed federal judge in Detroit, recently ruled our terror spy program unconstitutional.
"The ruling of the judge is not only a victory for the American Muslim community but a victory for the entire American population," said Dawud Walid, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations(CAIR) for Michigan, which joined the ACLU as a plaintiff in the lawsuit.
"We think the program is unconstitutional and we are hopeful and confident that any district or appellate court who looks at it seriously will agree with that," said ACLU attorney Jameel Jaffer.

It would be comforting if a Muslim said, “We understand the times and that the actions of some Muslims require greater scrutiny of all Muslims, because the power to protect must be commensurate with the threatened danger.”
But, of course, that has not been said.

And President Bush said:
United States intelligence officials have confirmed that the program has helped stop terrorist attacks and saved American lives. The program is carefully administered, and only targets international phone calls coming into or out of the United States where one of the parties on the call is a suspected Al Qaeda or affiliated terrorist. The whole point is to detect and prevent terrorist attacks before they can be carried out. That's what the American people expect from their government, and it is the President's most solemn duty to ensure their protection.
The Terrorist Surveillance Program is firmly grounded in law and regularly reviewed to make sure steps are taken to protect civil liberties. The Terrorist Surveillance Program has proven to be one of our most critical and effective tools in the war against terrorism, and we look forward to demonstrating on appeal the validity of this vital program.

Some of the logic used by Judge Taylor in her decision:
"As Justice Warren wrote in U.S. v. Robel, 389 U.S. 258 (1967): (Robel was a communist working in a defense plant).
Implicit in the term ‘national defense’ is the notion of defending those values and ideas which set this Nation apart. . . . It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of . . . those liberties . . . which makes the defense of the Nation worthwhile."

It would indeed be ironic, and cause irreparable damage to our liberty, if in blindly defending imaginary people against imaginary danger, we sanctioned the subversion of our national defense.

A much more logical reasoning was given for the internment of Japanese during World War II. That was a wrong thing to do, in retrospect, but the Japanese then were not the Japanese now.

Justice Black wrote
[c]itizenship has its responsibilities as well as its privileges, and in time of war the burden is always heavier. Compulsory exclusion of large groups of citizens from their homes, except under circumstances of direst emergency and peril, is inconsistent with our basic governmental institutions. But when under conditions of modern warfare our shores are threatened by hostile forces, the power to protect must be commensurate with the threatened danger.

And today the power to protect must also be “ commensurate with the threatened danger.”

Our nation, though embarrassed at the treatment of our Japanese citizens, and our Japanese citizens, though wronged, survived.
As did the liberty of all, without subverting the national defense.

We know who we’re fighting over there.
And just so you know who we’re fighting over here:

AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION;
AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION
FOUNDATION;
AMERICAN CIVIL
LIBERTIES UNION OF MICHIGAN;
COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS;
COUNCIL ON AMERICAN
ISLAMIC RELATIONS MICHIGAN;
GREENPEACE, INC.;
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYERS;
JAMES BAMFORD;
LARRY DIAMOND;
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS;
TARA MCKELVEY; and
BARNETT R. RUBIN,
Plaintiffs,
v.
NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY / CENTRAL
SECURITY SERVICE; and LIEUTENANT
GENERAL KEITH B. ALEXANDER, in his official
capacity as Director of the National Security Agency
and Chief of the Central Security Service,
Defendants.

Submitted by FrozenOne on August 21, 2006 - 8:07 PM.

Well now this is very a interesting situation and I have to wonder if judge Taylor is just trying to make a name for herself as the first judge to publicly snub her nose at this adminstrations way to protect us against terrorism. This is a totaly new type of warfare and every citizen must do their part to help protect this great nation from receiving another sucker punch from the rear. With all the new devices and modern technology on the market, this administration has to do what ever it takes to ensure that we are secure, but of course there will always be those that will fight the system for one reason or another, until the strike takes out one of their loved ones and then they will be the first to stand in line and complain that enough was not done to protect them from an attack. If my President deems it necccessary to moitor my internatiional calls or any as far as that goes, than so be it, I have nothing to hid. It is usually the people with something to hide that will be the ones to object and raise cain to the tune of a lawsuit. I wonder what they could be hiding? If we were not involved in a war on global terrorism, then I could see these people and that rediculous ACLU (totally worthless group) waging a lawsuit. Certain circumstances warrant certain actions to protect the many from the disgruntaled few. Co-operate and do your part and when it is proven by harm to you or your family that your rights were abused them proceed with your fruitless circus. Until then do your patriotic duty, and help the Eagle to soar once again over this great American nation, HOME OF THE BRAVE AND LAND FOR THE FREE.


Submitted by imdstuf on August 22, 2006 - 9:57 AM.

You people apparently keep forgetting what the word "free" means. If we let Bush have his secret police, then we are not a free country full of liberties. He might as well be the head of the KGB or Adalph Hitler if he can spy on people without warrant.


Submitted by mgroothand on August 22, 2006 - 12:21 PM.

The ACLU + CAIR, now that makes a fine combination of lawyers. Next they'll want to represent Japan to sue the US government for employing Navajo Indians for "code talk" during WWII. After all. it was secret!


Submitted by imdstuf on August 22, 2006 - 1:21 PM.

The President is not a King, nor a dictator ( though I am sure Bush wishes he was one). He is voted into office. He works for us. He is essentially our employee. A board over a company would not give blind control to a CEO without them having him report to them what he is doing to make the company successful.


Submitted by mydtwc on August 24, 2006 - 8:10 AM.

Boy you're right on this one gimpel. THESE ACTIVIST JUDGES HAVE GOT TO BE STOPPED!!!!!

THEY MAKE DECISIONS LIKE THIS BASED ON NOTHING MORE THAN THE UH (WHAT IS THAT THING?) OH YEAH THE CONSTITUTION!!!!

BUT NOT TO WORRY!!! WHEN WE GET IT AWAY FROM ACTIVIST JUDGES LIKE THAT WHO WOULD MAKE A DECISION BASED ON NO MORE THAN A PIECE OF PAPER AND GET IT INTO THE HANDS OF DUBYA'S AND DADDIES APPOINTEES WHO WILL HAVE THE NERVE TO MAKE THEIR DECISION BASED ON LOYALTY TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, EVERYTHING WILL BE OK......


Submitted by g_dog_blog on August 24, 2006 - 11:56 AM.

gempel, I agree but add to the who we are fighting list, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, John Kerry, I would mention other Democrats and Republicans, but I am trying to keep this short. Also, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, Hollywood, I would go on but you get the idea.


Submitted by rehit1 on August 24, 2006 - 10:15 PM.

SLAM!


Submitted by imdstuf on August 25, 2006 - 9:36 AM.

You people really think if a news station is not siding with the Republicans on everything like Fox News does that makes them biased. Fox News is he biased one. Of course Fox News wants the ratings and tell you the others are liberal. If you watch CNN you will see they suck the Republicans a** alot too. NBC also. hell, Tom Brokaw admited he was a Republican. There is no biased liberal media. If anything the media does a good job of making things look alot better than they really are.


Submitted by rehit1 on August 25, 2006 - 10:40 AM.

That last statement is what got me. "If anything the media does a good job of making things look alot better than they really are." You obviously watch a different broadcast of CNN than I do because everything with them was always doom and gloom, the sky is falling. Although, I have to give credit where credit is due, they have been getting a little better about loosening up (I think they were tired of FOX kicking their liberal a**).

I mean, com'on, everything isn't bad. So where's the good stuff, the happy stuff, the stuff that makes you NOT want to stay in bed all day with the covers pulled over your head? It's out there, but CNN (and others) don't seem to want to share it. It's not newsworthy to them. Sure, there are a lot of seriously bad things going on these days, and we need to know about them, but geez...if you listen to that crap day in and day out with no bright side to look forward to, we may as well just all kill ourselves and put ourselves out of our misery. So don't slam FOX for showing the lighter side of the world we live in along with the not-so-good news.


Submitted by imdstuf on August 27, 2006 - 5:50 PM.

Funny, I see good stories on CNN and MSNBC all days. They cover sports, entertainment, regional news. Hell, watch Keith Oberman, if anything he makes everything sound like a joke, if you want to lighten things up. I can see a time and place for that, but when it comes to Iraq there is not alot of good news. When it comes to war, that is not usually good news, because there is death. What do you want them to do, dance around sining like the Smurfs while cheerfully reporting how Iraq is about to break down into civil war?
I don't get to watch alot anyways, I get my news from augustachronicle.com and cnn.com more than I get it by the television.


Submitted by FrozenOne on August 25, 2006 - 11:12 PM.

Nope! Gotta disagree with you imdstuf, they report more negative than positive, because it's the negative that sells. After all, do you think Cindy would be protesting if all they did was report all the good thinges going on in Iraq? Of course not, she wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and if she was my mom I would be ashamed of her since I volunteered to join. What do you think?


Submitted by imdstuf on August 27, 2006 - 5:52 PM.

Also, if the media hated Bush as much as you think, how come there was not alot more breaking news and specials about The Downing Street Memos? More Americans might have been upset by them had the media really put it out there as something big. They just pushed it in with other daily news, between the weather and "ugliest dog of the year" stories.