Your first scenario is an example of collateral damage, which is very unfortunate. If the allegations from Haditha are true, these Marines committed murder. Marines are well trained on how to handle noncombatants, and they have very specific rules of engagement.

There's no way to know if the victims knew anything about the roadside bomb. And even if they did, the people of Haditha have enough to worry about without having to risk their own lives to spy on the insurgents and act as informants to the U.S. military. Certainly neither the Iraqi government nor our own made an announcement to Iraqi civilians warning that they will be shot if they don't report insurgent activity.

This incident is a prime example of why you do not put your youth in harms way unless the cause is undeniably justifiable. The mental cost of serving in a war zone is exacting. No one seems to confront the issue of thousands of young men coming home from this war with their minds filled with grief and anger
no longer able to look upon life as they previously did.

Wake up america.

Well said Philippe. It may be worth noting that this incident happened within 300 yards of the U.S. base in Haditha. I also heard the assertion than IEDs must be detonated by line of sight, so when one goes off U.S. soldiers know someone responsible has to be within that line of sight. It is their custumary response to start shooting wildly when these deadly devices go off.

IEDs, and not car bombs, are the number one killer of U.S. troops. It must be said they are terrible weapons with concussive effects that are not just nerve rattling but actually cause closed head trauma for which all returning troops need to be screened. It is remarkable that more progress hasn't been made in high tech ways to detect these devices because such technological innovations have been touted.

Another analyst I listened to yesterday said that this event in Hadita alone does not marr the nature of the mission, the U.S. military, or the necessarily say anything about U.S. troops in general because 99.9% of troops respond ethically, legally, and responsibly when confronted with mortal threat. However, Retired Gen. Wesley Clark said that his does indict how the U.S. military is stretched at the margins. This isn't characteric of the military, but it is an indicator of problems with the mission or with military staffing.

Finally, there are other reports of a significant number of U.S. atrocities. Atrocities happen in every war, but this lends credence to Gen. Clark's contention that there is a problem with the mission. I don't blame the ordinary U.S. soldier, but I do blame the civilian political leadership and the U.S. military high command that is complicit with this illegal and poorly planned mission. We are going to see more unfortunate occurrences in the future until America comes to terms with the fact that the invasion of Iraq is illegal and immoral.

Before condemning the military let's please wait until the investigations have been completed. If true, we'll hang out our dirty laundry for the whole world to see. In the meanwhile let's also not forget that, if true, such an act is an extremely rare occurrence in the US military. For the jhihadists it's a way of life.

JRHC: WWI, the war that was to end all wars. Didn't happen. How does anyone legitimize any war? Depends on whose side you're on. Germany didn't like the Versailles treaty so they started WWII. Besides they were the ubermensch. Whatever comes out of Kofi Annans' mouth is not to be believed. Our "legal" basis was strong when we went to war 3 years ago, the propaganda instigated by Bush haters and propagated by most of the rest of the world comes from something called automatic anti-Americanism. We don't know yet if Haditha was an attrocity and the German people saw us as agressors in 1942 when we wouldn't let them conquer the world and allow them to establish a 1000 year Reich.